[Angela Foster] (0:00 - 0:05)
Many women have been led to believe that they should be training according to their menstrual cycle.

[Dr Lauren] (0:05 - 0:26)
We should really stay away from any cookie cutter programmes that say, expect to feel worse this week, or you must do this type of training that week, because really it just over complicates things. It kind of sets you up to feel worse even if you don't, just because I've sort of planted that idea in your head.

[ANgela Foster] (0:26 - 0:32)
And what about when we're looking at women going through perimenopause? What are some of the changes that are happening there?

[Dr Lauren] (0:32 - 0:44)
I think there is a trend to make everything about hormones right now. And unfortunately, it ignores so many other aspects that play into how women will feel or perform.

[ANgela Foster] (0:45 - 0:46)
This is much easier than we think. Yeah.

[Dr Lauren] (0:47 - 0:50)
It's not as complicated as many people would have you believe.

[ANgela Foster] (0:55 - 2:06)
What if nine blood markers could predict how fast you're ageing and you could change it? Research shows for every extra year of biological age, mortality risk increases 9%. Stride tests the exact biomarkers that predict longevity, plus your DNA and microbiome.

So you know what to change through diet, movement, and sleep. I'm testing myself and my family. Get 10% off at getstride.com forward slash Angela, or check the link in the description below. Dr. Lauren Colenso-Sample, I'm absolutely thrilled to have you here today. You have a PhD in integrative physiology, a master's in exercise science. You are a certified strength and conditioning specialist.

And I feel like you can clear up a lot of the myths around how women should train. I, for one, I believe have broken many of the rules that we've been told on social media in terms of things like faster training. Cycle syncing wasn't even a thing when I was younger, so I never did that.

But I seem to have good muscle mass, really good bone density, low visceral fat, and have gotten results nonetheless. So I'm really excited to talk to you about the science behind all of this today. So firstly, welcome.

[Dr Lauren] (2:06 - 2:08)
Thank you so much for having me.

[ANgela Foster] (2:08 - 2:24)
I think a really good place just to start off is your background in this and why you took an interest in the way that women train, because we hear so much out there that's confusing many women. And I know you've really gone deep on the research on this. What brought you to this area?

[Dr Lauren] (2:24 - 2:41)
Well, I was a coach. I used to train people in New York City. I taught group fitness and then I did one-on-one training with clients.

And so my initial interest in the science really stemmed from wanting to optimise my own results and be the best coach for my clients.

[ANgela Foster] (2:42 - 3:01)
When we look at women's health, first of all, what I'd really like to take a look at first is this concept around cycle syncing. Many women have been led to believe that they should be training according to their menstrual cycle. You've done a lot of research into this area.

What can you share in relation to how women should think about their training?

[Dr Lauren] (3:02 - 4:39)
Well, one thing that's really missed in the conversation and in all of these sort of prescriptions around cycle syncing is the variability between cycle length, phase length between women, and even in some cases from one cycle to the next. So just that in and of itself tells us that the lived experience will really differ from one woman to the next. So I think we should really stay away from any cookie cutter programmes that say, expect to feel worse this week, or you must do this type of training that week.

Because really, it just overcomplicates things. It kind of sets you up to maybe feel worse even if you don't, just because I've sort of planted that idea in your head and the psychological ramifications of those are fairly meaningful. So instead of worrying about adjusting week to week or changing how you're training or the intensity of the training based on cycle phase, we should really take an individualised approach.

And certainly if there are times, maybe pre-period or the first couple of days of the cycle where you're having bothersome symptoms, then feel free to adjust your training. Having an auto-regulatory component is just a good thing to have in any training programme, but we should really stay away from any kind of dogmatic approach to cycle syncing.

[ANgela Foster] (4:39 - 4:52)
And is there any evidence that when we are in the earlier part of the month, so when oestrogen is rising in that follicular phase, that we are in fact stronger and we should take advantage of trying to hit a PB and that sort of thing in that stage?

[Dr Lauren] (4:52 - 6:07)
No. So this is where the social media narrative and the science really disconnect because there was a hypothesis that that increase in oestrogen would somehow be more anabolic or that performance would be better or that perhaps that there would be less muscle damage and we could recover more quickly. But a lot of that messaging really spread separately from the science that was actually supporting it.

And so when we actually look at the data in humans about how women are really responding, how they are performing, there's no real indication that those few days where oestrogen is peaking is actually optimal. When you look at acute performance in different phases, some women will report feeling stronger, but that's not even commonly in that phase. It can differ.

Some people say, I feel my strongest and I always invest in the gym day one of my period. And I have other people who say to me, I couldn't possibly go to the gym on day one of my period.

[ANgela Foster] (6:07 - 6:38)
Yeah, it does vary, doesn't it? From woman to woman, I've definitely noticed that. When we're looking at the second half of the menstrual cycle, it's often said that we are less resilient during that stage and we should take more time from recovery.

From what you're saying, it sounds like each woman should be kind of guided by their own lived experience and how they feel much more than any kind of scientifically led data around what they should be doing in that portion of the month. But is there any evidence to suggest that we need to have more recovery in the second phase?

[Dr Lauren] (6:39 - 7:07)
No, again, the science doesn't support that. And when we actually look at what is going on physiologically in terms of at the muscle level in response to exercise, whether it's highly damaging exercise or not, the ability for us to adapt at the physiological level is the same. So again, we should really only focus on making any changes as needed on an individual level.

[ANgela Foster] (7:07 - 7:19)
So this is really looking at our own data, how we feel, things like our resting heart rate, our HRV, how good our sleep's been, what other stress we have in our lives, taking account of that information as opposed to hormone specific data.

[Dr Lauren] (7:20 - 7:54)
Yeah, I think there's a trend to sort of make everything about hormones right now. And unfortunately, it ignores so many other aspects that play into how women will feel or perform. And so instead of automatically thinking, oh, it must be cycle phase or it must be related to the menopause transition, I think we need to rethink that and say, yes, hormones are a piece, but there are so many other elements that influence how we feel and perform from one day to the next.

[ANgela Foster] (7:55 - 8:03)
And what about when we're looking at women going through perimenopause? What are some of the changes that are happening there that we might need to factor into any kind of training plan?

[Dr Lauren] (8:04 - 9:07)
Often in that transition, the length of which can vary depending on the woman, there are kind of erratic hormone fluctuations that then can manifest in really bothersome symptoms. Poor sleep is something that can certainly have a whole host of downstream effects that might influence your ability to adhere to a diet or exercise programme. And so consistency can be really difficult to maintain if those symptoms are not addressed.

But once again, I think the idea that we would have very strict rules or that there are any do's or don'ts, that's not at all supported by the science. What we do want to be mindful of addressing the symptoms if present, and then make sure that we are adhering to a consistent exercise programme as much as possible, and certainly focussing on progressive, challenging resistance training so that we can offset some of that age-related muscle and strength loss, and also try to maintain our bone density.

[ANgela Foster] (9:08 - 9:24)
And with that muscle and strength loss that you mentioned there that's age-related, is there anything additional that's happening in women in particular? So for example, we often hear about women having anabolic resistance at this stage, and therefore they need to lift heavier weights and do lower repetition ranges.

[Dr Lauren] (9:25 - 10:23)
Is there any evidence in the many ages and sexes at this point? When we look at the data in young, middle-aged, and older adults, both men and women, you can gain muscle size at high, moderate, or low rep ranges. So that kind of school of thought that you needed to lift really heavy in order to maximise muscle growth was something that 20 years ago, everyone thought that, personal trainers always learned that.

But through a pretty large body of literature at this point, we see that as long as you're training close enough to failure, so it has to be challenging, and it has to be close enough to failure, but the muscle growth is equal, which is great news because it means that we have some options, and you can also mix up the rep ranges to kind of add some variety into your training programme.

[ANgela Foster] (10:23 - 10:32)
When you talk about close enough to failure there, is that within, like, commonly what's used, I think, is the term reps in reserve. Would that be one to three reps in reserve?

[Dr Lauren] (10:33 - 10:43)
That's right. So if we think about a set of 10, and we couldn't possibly do an 11th, then that's failure. So then we would want to maybe stop around eight.

[ANgela Foster] (10:44 - 11:13)
Around eight reps. And what about some of the things I've seen on social media has talked about recently is that we need to focus on muscle quality, and that somehow if we're going in lower rep ranges, that leads to better muscle quality. I think that the example that's used is kind of the difference between a fillet steak and a rib eye steak, for example, and that we can have this marbling and this fat, and if we want to improve the quality of our muscle, that's when these heavy, lower repetition sets come in.

[Dr Lauren] (11:13 - 12:25)
Yeah. So we can look at muscle quality in a few different ways. In the research, it's actually defined as strength relative to total muscle mass.

So meaning the quality is the function, not necessarily the mass. But what you're alluding to is sort of that intramuscular fat. And that's true that having a lot of intramuscular fat is linked to poorer health outcomes.

But it's not so much about a particular rep range that's going to get us to that leaner or less intramuscular fat. It's about being at a healthy weight. Certainly even just kind of weight loss alone can reduce some of that intramuscular fat.

So maintaining healthy weight is really important, and maintaining the muscle mass by challenging lifting in any rep range, and also just being overall physically active. So I'm not really sure where that narrative comes from, but we have no indication that the rep range that you are training in is going to either facilitate or attenuate that fat inside the muscle.

[ANgela Foster] (12:25 - 13:10)
And nutrition, as you say, makes a big difference in relation to that quality. When you're looking at repetition ranges, then, you mentioned around training in kind of all rep ranges. That's something I like to do.

I do it with my clients. But for people who they like prefer to work within a certain rep range, so for example, they love going to the gym and they like working out within the sort of eight to 12 rep range because it feels a bit more stimulating, if you like, because they're doing slightly higher reps than strength sets. Is there any reason why they would need to vary those repetition ranges, for example, across a year?

Will that lead to better improvements? Or as long as they are progressively overloading the muscle by increasing weights or maybe increasing sets or shorter rest or other ways, is that sufficient?

[Dr Lauren] (13:11 - 14:03)
That's sufficient. To your point, we can progressively overload in different ways. And so maybe it is increasing the load that you're using.

Can I lift a heavier weight? Maybe it's, oh, I was doing this weight for eight and now I'm doing that same weight for 10 and then 12, or we can add an additional set to increase some volume. So there really isn't kind of a one size fits all rule.

We just want to keep progressing. And that progression initially will happen pretty quickly. And you'll get used to, you know, every week you feel like you can do a little bit more.

And then that will start to slow down because that kind of progression that we get as newer lifters isn't linear forever, but we can still make those incremental gains and we can do that in any rep range.

[ANgela Foster] (14:03 - 14:11)
Thank you. And so that's in relation to muscle mass. When we're looking at strength gains, are there particular rep ranges that we need to focus on there?

[Dr Lauren] (14:12 - 15:10)
Well, if we're looking at maximal strength, meaning a one rep max, how much can I lift one time? Then we need to be training in those lower rep ranges, the higher load. So that would be the kind of bread and butter of a power lifters training because their sports specific goal is a one rep max squat bench deadlift.

But for those of us who are interested in overall health and muscle mass in general strength, we can get stronger in these other rep ranges as well. So if I'm doing a set of eight and I'm using 50 pounds, and then eventually I'm able to do that set of eight and I'm using 70 pounds, then I did get stronger. We're just not measuring it as a one rep max because that's not my goal.

So it really is goal orientated, but maximal strength and that kind of sports specific training would differ from general strength.

[ANgela Foster] (15:11 - 15:29)
So for someone who's listening to this and they are focused on overall health, they enjoy exercise. They also want the longevity benefits and really kind of protect and sort of slow down ageing as much as possible. Is there any reason that they would need to train really heavy in that three to five rep range?

[Dr Lauren] (15:30 - 16:06)
No, only if they really want to push that maximal strength or if they really enjoy it. Otherwise, I think certainly for people who are newer to the gym, we want to practise the movement patterns. We want to feel comfortable.

And part of that is going to be repetition. So I would be much more comfortable with someone who's newer doing the kind of moderate rep ranges. And so then we feel proficient performing the movement and we start to understand, okay, this is what getting close to failure really feels like, because we have that repetitive practise.

[ANgela Foster] (16:07 - 16:50)
I think, yeah, for someone who's listening to this, who's more on that beginner stage, or for example, they've had a break from exercise, they're going back to it. It can feel really daunting going into the weight room, particularly as there's just, I think about my own like morning gym session. There's two clubs I go to, one of them when I go with my husband really early in the morning, I probably like, there's probably like, I don't know, less than 5% women in there.

And that can feel like quite intimidating for people. There's also, you know, looking at do they do squats and deadlifts and things like that, or are machine-based exercises as good, particularly when you're starting out. So using something like a hack squat machine or a leg press for that development, if they haven't got access, for example, to a personal trainer who can take them through it.

[Dr Lauren] (16:50 - 17:24)
Machine training is absolutely beneficial. We actually see similar muscle growth with machine and free weight training. And I love machines for somebody who's newer to the gym.

A lot of commercial gyms these days will actually have kind of a circuit that you can do. And I think that's a great way to just dabble in resistance training, start getting comfortable with the movement patterns, understand what challenging is going to feel like and do so in a way that is less intimidating than trying to do highly technical lifts with barbells.

[ANgela Foster] (17:25 - 18:01)
Yeah, that's great advice. When we look at the other thing is around nervous system health. So a lot of people are very focused on this at the moment, I think, because particularly midlife women, which a lot of my audience is, who have successful careers, they're under a lot of stress.

When we're looking at exercise stress, does the rep range make a difference? I think, for example, I had read somewhere that there was more pressure, if you like, on your nervous system when you're in a higher sort of mid to higher rep range than in a lower rep range as originally thought. Is there any evidence around this?

[Dr Lauren] (18:01 - 18:57)
What advice can you give You know, I think when we look at a stress from exercise, we were thinking of the overall physiological stress, which is actually a good thing, because the stress allows us to adapt. So, you know, enter all the cortisol fear that's out there. But really, where we need those kinds of stressors in order to facilitate the adaptation.

And so, yes, putting stress on the muscle on the system is going to be part and parcel of the necessary response to exercise that actually gets us the adaptations that we want. So really wouldn't be concerned about sort of bad stress from exercise. The most important thing is that we're lifting with proper technique, and we're doing it consistently, and then we are progressing over time.

[ANgela Foster] (18:57 - 19:23)
Over time. And when we look at high intensity interval training, there's again, just so many things that go around around this. Some people saying that it's really, really amazing, and it will make you more resilient over time, which I think all exercise does.

Other people feel that they need to stay away from it if their cortisol is high. What does the science tell us about high intensity interval training for women who are cycling and then also peri and postmenopausal women?

[Dr Lauren] (19:24 - 20:57)
The most important distinction between higher and lower intensities is time efficiency. And so if you're somebody who's short on time, then you can get a lot of bang for your buck in a shorter window than if you're doing a more of a moderate intensity training. Now, endurance athletes will train in a variety of heart rate zones or different intensities because they're trying to optimise their long form endurance performance.

But for the average person, just trying to maintain general health and fitness, we don't really need to worry about these nuances and particular heart rate zones. Really, we want to first do something that we enjoy enough to do it consistently. And so some people, they love going for a long kind of moderate intensity run, and other people want to be in and out of the gym in as little time as possible.

And so then a higher intensity type training might be better. But the most important thing is to manage the overall volume or quantity of work that we're doing. Because if you're doing way too much high intensity stuff, then you're not actually taking advantage of the fact that we are doing this for time efficiency.

So if you're going to do more moderate intensity, then you can do more volume and recover. If you're going to do the higher intensity, then we need to do less overall volume to facilitate that recovery.

[ANgela Foster] (20:58 - 21:40)
And to make sure that we're going at a high enough intensity to get the adaptation. Yeah. When we look at then, we hear a lot of doctors and podcasters talk about the benefits of zone two training.

And this then runs into hours a week. I mean, I personally don't have like three, four hours a week to spend in zone two on top of lifting weights and doing all the other things I do. Plus I love walking, for example.

Do we need to be spending that time? It sounds like you're making that distinction in relation to endurance athletes. But for somebody who is trying to optimise the health of the mitochondria, we know that's affected, particularly in perimenopause as oestrogen drops.

Do we need to be spending time in zone two specifically?

[Dr Lauren] (21:40 - 22:59)
We actually see similar adaptations in terms of VO2max and mitochondrial function with training at high and lower intensities. So I think the conversation around this is sort of warped because again, this is something that is appropriate for an endurance athlete because they need to get in a lot of training volume for their marathon training. And so the bread and butter of that athlete's training is going to be zone two because they're doing so much training.

And so if they did that kind of volume at very high intensities, they would never recover. And so it's the bulk is zone two, and then you're kind of peppering in these tempo runs and these higher intensities and that's all designed to optimise their performance. When we have this conversation outside the context of endurance athlete training, then we have so much flexibility and option because it's all effective and we can do a combination of, or we can do what we prefer.

And the idea that there's a sort of must or must not is really missing the point because it's all beneficial.

[ANgela Foster] (22:59 - 23:49)
I remember having this conversation with Paul Olson, who obviously has studied a lot in HIIT and zone one and two training. And what he was saying to me is don't get hung up on the difference even between zone one and two, because if you're on one of those sort of off days, if you like, where you're not exercising with any intensity, going out for a walk is just so amazing for your immune health and so many other systems in the body that getting hung up on whether you are kind of just at the talk test where you're making it deliberately uncomfortable.

And now suddenly the walk is no longer enjoyable, right? You can't appreciate the sort of nature or anything like that. There's so many effects in terms of nervous system, stress, immune health from just going out there and actually engaging that physical activity, which seems to be what you're saying here, right?

Is not to get too hung up on the zone itself.

[Dr Lauren] (23:50 - 24:33)
Absolutely. And I always promote things that are physically active that don't necessarily feel like structured exercise. And that could be hiking with friends or biking or going out on a canoe or anything that you're doing that allows you to be outside and maybe have some social connection and also some physical activity is great.

So it doesn't all have to be really structured and tracked and planned and getting really bogged down in some of these details. I think to your point, being able to go for a walk or even do something that we're not viewing the same way that we've used structured physical activity, it can be extremely beneficial.

[ANgela Foster] (24:34 - 25:08)
And just really enjoyable, right? You can be social with it as well. You can go play tennis or paddle or something like that, as you say.

What about when we're looking at recovery? Because active recovery can be helpful in terms of delivering nutrients to the muscles, more oxygen. Does that make any difference?

Is going for a walk, if that's what you feel like doing, going to be just as good as say, for example, I know there's additional benefits, right? When we look at heart health for things like sauna, but if we're just trying to kind of flush out and recover the muscles more quickly, does it matter the intensity of the exercise or the overall movement that we're doing on those recovery days?

[Dr Lauren] (25:09 - 25:17)
We don't want something that's too intense. So something like a walk is great. Something like easy cycling is also great.

[ANgela Foster] (25:18 - 25:56)
Yeah. Either of those work or swim or something like that. Yeah.

So it sounds like from what you're saying here, the science actually backs up the fact that this is much easier than we think, like lifting a few days a week in the rep ranges that you enjoy, as long as you're pushing hard enough and you're getting close to failure and you're progressively overloading the muscle over time through a variety of measures that we've just discussed. And then you're doing some other physical activity, right, where you're walking or doing something you enjoy, swimming, biking, and you do occasional bouts of HIIT once or twice a week for very short periods. You will be getting everything you need in kind of a total of three or four hours a week.

[Dr Lauren] (25:57 - 26:01)
Yeah. It's not as complicated as many people would have you believe.

[ANgela Foster] (26:03 - 26:51)
It's much, much simpler. I think what I'd like to dive into next with you is now the nutrition side of things, because this is where we're also told a bunch of stuff. So fasted training.

Now, this is sort of a bit loaded, I guess, in the context of conversations that have taken place, but also it means different things to different people. Because if, for example, I tend to train early in the morning, I know there's a bunch of my audience that do that. I am in a fasted state, but it wasn't that long ago since I ate, right?

Because if I had a meal the evening before, it's not that long compared to somebody who say wakes up at 6am and then they haven't eaten anything. And then they wait until 10am and then they go train. And there's this longer period.

So I think it's helpful to understand the nuance between the two if there is one, but does it matter if we train in a fasted state?

[Dr Lauren] (26:52 - 28:25)
No, we know that when we train fasted for some high intensity or very long form type training, then it might not be ideal for performance. But for your average gym session, and even when we look at the data on people who are consistently training fasted, and we look at muscle growth and strength gains, there isn't a difference. And so you can do what you prefer.

And some people prefer to train fasted because if they eat really close to a gym session, then they feel GI discomfort. And so for those people, then it's a better call to train fasted. And other people will say, well, I feel like I have more energy and I perform better.

And I just like having some food in me before I go. But to your point, I think a lot of these conversations around fasted training sort of imply that we wake up and we're completely empty. We didn't eat yesterday.

And what we ate yesterday is stored for fuel for our morning gym session. And so it's not as if we are starting over every morning and we need immediate fuel for that particular workout. So I think we really need to just focus on what we prefer.

And for some people who don't train the same time every day from day to day, maybe some days they'll train fasted and some days they'll train fed and that's completely fine too.

[ANgela Foster] (28:25 - 29:26)
It sounds like what you're saying is track it individually, right? Just like we were saying about the other things. So if you feel like you train better when you've the important thing is that you get that stimulus and adaptation.

So if you're going to train a little bit harder because you've had something to eat. And this is interesting because when I put a post out about this a few weeks ago, actually on my Instagram, there was a bunch of comments and some people were like, you know, massive advocates of fuelling before training. And they'd heard that.

And it was amazing. And it made such a difference to them. And other people didn't.

Interestingly, I've been, if anyone interested in sort of tracking it myself, it seems to make, I actually prefer to train fasted when I'm lifting weights because I don't like the GI distress. But if I'm going out for something that's more like high intensity running, where I'm doing a set of sprints, something like the Norwegian four by four, for example, I prefer it to eat, have some caffeine and then wait a few hours and go. And I just think that I put in better efforts from what you're saying, Lauren, it sounds like your best effort is what makes the most difference.

And so fuel in the way that helps you do that.

[Dr Lauren] (29:27 - 30:06)
Absolutely. I think the conversation that sort of says you must eat is really a problem for some people because then they feel, well, I'm waking up at four 30, and then I have to worry about food before I go to the gym. And that's adding another layer of stress to my morning that I think I need, or maybe I'm not going to benefit from that workout if I haven't eaten beforehand and a lot of fear around this.

But the truth is that the workout is effective regardless of whether you train fed or fasted. So do what's convenient for you. Do what you prefer.

Feel free to experiment with both and then decide what's best for you.

[ANgela Foster] (30:06 - 30:32)
What's best for you. And when we're looking at time of day, does that make any difference in terms of our ability to lift heavier or burn more fat? I realise that fat loss is a separate thing, right?

Because that really comes down to whether we're in a calorie deficit. If we were burning fat during exercise doesn't mean we're going to lose body fat. But are there times of day that lend themselves to better to certain types of exercises or is this just very individual again?

[Dr Lauren] (30:33 - 31:21)
Generally, if you are somebody who's always worked out in the afternoon or the evening, and then you switch to working out in the morning, then for a couple of weeks, you'll probably find that you're not performing as well because you kind of need to get used to that new time of day training. But there's nothing inherently better or worse about the time of day. It just seems like people benefit from having some consistency if possible.

The other thing is some people, if they train too late in the day, will have issues with sleep. And so it just depends on if that's something you've noticed that you experience. And then if possible, maybe don't do a lot of really high intensity exercise towards the end of the day.

But other people don't have that problem. So again, it's kind of trial and error.

[ANgela Foster] (31:21 - 31:49)
Very individual. Yeah. I think for me, if it's not done by 2 p.m., it probably isn't going to happen because I'm not that motivated as the day goes on in terms of any intense efforts. And I guess that's very individual. If you're a morning person as well, you're probably going to find it easier to exercise in the morning. What about caffeine as a performance tool or for really kind of pushing a workout, enhancing things like fat loss?

What does the research show around caffeine's benefits?

[Dr Lauren] (31:50 - 32:38)
It's beneficial, but we start to adapt to it pretty quickly. So if you're somebody who habitually consumes caffeine, it's not clear that we're actually getting that much out of it performance wise once habituated. But if you're someone who's really used to working out caffeinated, then you'll likely feel it if you start to skip the caffeine.

So I think if you're somebody who feels that caffeine pre-workout is part of your routine, then I would probably continue to do so even if we realise that I'm probably kind of habituated to it. So I'm not necessarily getting a lot of performance benefit, but there's kind of that mental benefit that can help as well.

[ANgela Foster] (32:38 - 32:57)
Yeah. And you're probably not performing quite as well if you haven't got it because now you're missing it. Any problems then with having some caffeine in the morning and then going to the gym in a fasted state and working out?

This is something that's commonly criticised in terms of adrenal health. Are there any problems there?

[Dr Lauren] (32:57 - 34:16)
There's no problems there. You know, I think that a lot of this narrative sort of blends some truths and then packages them in a way that is not so true. And so when we are fasted for long periods of time, then we do have an increase in cortisol.

When we wake up in the morning, our cortisol levels are highest. When we consume caffeine, we can get an increase in cortisol. And so those are all true, but none of them either individually or together are problematic.

When we run into issues with high cortisol, it's about consistently high cortisol. We want high cortisol in the morning because we have this wakening response and it starts our day. And then we want low cortisol in the evening when we're kind of winding down.

And then we have appropriate fluctuations like an increase in cortisol due to exercise. But all of this is really tightly regulated by our physiology. And again, it's only an issue if there are clinical conditions like Cushing's syndrome, where you have chronically elevated cortisol, and those need to be addressed medically.

But we should not be worrying about making decisions around short-term increases in cortisol.

[ANgela Foster] (34:16 - 34:55)
And this is more of a lifestyle decision, right? In terms of are you balancing your day with stress and then recovery? So for somebody who is running from one thing to the next, they've worked out, then they're going on their commute, then perhaps running late, then they're going to a meeting, they haven't eaten, then they grab some more coffee, and they're just loading up, loading up until they get home.

And then they're dealing with the kids and putting them to bed. And then it's just like the next thing, the next thing, the next thing. That's more of a broader lifestyle issue than it is the training that took place in the morning, which represents maybe, I don't know, as we were saying, three or four hours out of 168 in your week.

It probably isn't the biggest contributing factor to the stress that you're seeing.

[Dr Lauren] (34:55 - 35:20)
Well, that's right. And I think that a lot of the conversation around, do we have to do zone two? Is zone two bad?

Should I not train in the morning? Do I need to train fasted? Do I need to eat 30 minutes post-workout?

That's adding a whole lot of stress unnecessarily as well, because we're taking something that is supposed to be a good thing for our health. We're making it incredibly complicated and stressful. And now we're all worried that we're doing it wrong.

[ANgela Foster] (35:21 - 36:16)
Yeah, that's true. The idea that you're getting it wrong is very stressful in itself. What about for the mums that are listening to this?

They wake up, they train early in the morning, they come back. I guess the luxury is if you can get back and do five or 10 minutes of breath work right before the household takes steam. And maybe they don't have time to have something to eat until they've got the kids ready.

Then they've got them off to school and they maybe even have taken their dogs out for a bit. I'm thinking of me, this sounds like a bit of my lifestyle here. And then they eventually come back and sit down.

There's a big part of me that is like eating while under stress is not great. So actually setting aside the time for proper digestion and getting to that has so many physiological effects in itself. But is there a problem with having exercised in that fasted state in the morning and then postponing eating for an hour or two post-workout?

[Dr Lauren] (36:16 - 36:56)
We want to make sure that we're consuming an appropriate number of overall calories and appropriate amount of protein, appropriate amount of fibre. And so obviously it gets to a point where if you've pushed back your first meal for so long that then we're running into issues kind of hitting all of those bases, then we need to reconsider things. But just generally speaking, if you are consuming all of those sufficient calories, sufficient protein, sufficient fibre, getting in your micronutrients, then the actual timing of that is far less important than that consistent diet.

[ANgela Foster] (36:57 - 37:37)
Okay, got you. I'm going to come back to protein because that's a very interesting topic in its own right. Just sticking with the exercise, one thing I'd also like to understand from you, because I know you've spoken about this on your social media and in your research, is bone density and the type of exercise that we need to do for this.

A lot of women are being encouraged to jump and sometimes they're not going to be ready, for example, jumping up and down off a box if they're untrained and there's a risk of injury. What are the most important things? I know mechanical tension, for example, when your strength training or resistance training is making a difference.

What do women need to know to have good bone density?

[Dr Lauren] (37:38 - 39:04)
It looks like resistance training is beneficial. It's always my go-to recommendation because if we know we want to do it for muscle and then it has benefits for bone, then that's great because now we don't need to do an extra type of exercise that is bone-specific versus muscle-specific. But you look at weight-bearing aerobic exercise, that seems to be beneficial.

Jumping does seem to be beneficial. Dancing seems to be beneficial. There's a variety of ways that we can approach training for bone.

I think the idea that jumping is a must is definitely not established in the literature. What we do want is strength and good balance. Part of that we can incorporate into our resistance training doing things like Bulgarian split squats or walking lunges where we are moving through a full range of motion under load and there's a bit of a stability component.

Because when we think about bone health, it's not just about the bone density in and of itself or the bone mineral content, it's also about how we are functioning physically and fracture prevention and fall prevention. And so having good strong muscles and good balance are all part of that package.

[ANgela Foster] (39:05 - 39:40)
Yeah, that's very interesting because I suppose we underestimate those walking lunges and things like that, just how much effort they do take. What about when we talk about fast twitch muscle fibres and the fact that these decline faster and power specific training? I mean, my understanding is that when we're looking at someone falling, good balance is going to help prevent that.

But if they then do start to fall, the fast twitch muscle fibres will get involved to help them right themselves. Is there enough stimulus coming from the things like the high intensity exercise, for example, or do we need to be thinking about power specific training?

[Dr Lauren] (39:40 - 41:26)
Well, I think if we are doing enough strength training, then we don't necessarily need to incorporate additional power training. We certainly can, but I would say if you are a beginner, then we would want to start with more basics and learning about how to properly perform the movement pattern through a full range of motion before we start worrying about taking down those loads and focussing on speed. Because power training traditionally is really at a lighter load, but you're trying to move the weight as quickly as possible.

And I think that can be challenging for a beginner because if you're not comfortable moving the loads that are close enough to failure, then we get sort of stuck in this place of not really knowing what is heavy enough. And then are we focussing on the speed of the movement or are we supposed to focus on how much weight can I use? And so it can get very murky.

And the reality is that whenever we are performing challenging exercise with an appropriate load, when you're really trying to lift the weight, then you should be trying to lift the weight as quickly as possible. As we continue that set, then the reps will start to get a little bit slower because we're getting closer and closer to failure, but we're still making that effort to push as quickly as possible. It's not like we're trying to move the weight very slowly.

So we are getting those types of adaptations when we are lifting weights when the load is challenging enough and we're getting close to failure.

[ANgela Foster] (41:27 - 41:42)
Yeah. And if we're doing it properly, right, because we're moving it as quickly as we can. Yeah.

And then slower on the return. What about though with power training, is it enough, for example, to just move the weight of your own body quickly?

[Dr Lauren] (41:42 - 42:20)
Probably not. We probably need some sort of external load. But yeah, I think we probably need some external load, but we're really focused on that speed.

So yeah, I mean, could you say that something like sprinting will improve power? Yes, but not a full body. So then we'd probably want to have some either other like resistant training type power exercise or throwing type power movements.

Both of those would be productive.

[ANgela Foster] (42:21 - 42:37)
What about if you're doing like burpees and pushups and just the things that, things that you can do, push and push until you feel like you're going to puke up. Are they going to produce, are they going to produce enough effects for power or you think the actual external resistance is ideal?

[Dr Lauren] (42:38 - 43:28)
Well, I think most people don't do burpees properly enough to get the benefits that you're describing. And certainly don't, when we're doing a hundred of them, when you get to the 10th, then you're really slowing down. It's becoming sort of like a drop to the floor and then maybe a half of a pushup and then you're standing back up.

And so when we think about something that is going to be truly high intensity, then we have to do again, that appropriate amount of volume where we're actually doing it at the target intensity and not trying to kind of extend it out. And so a lot of group fitness is guilty of this because they're trying to have an hour long class and you're calling it high intensity, but it's so long that you really can't sustain that level of intensity for that full duration.

[ANgela Foster] (43:29 - 44:01)
Yeah. It sounds like from what you're saying though, for someone who is time poor, if they're very mindful about the way they do their exercise and they are approaching it in the right way, then they will be pushing that weight with enough speed, right? That they are getting that power stimulus in.

And if they then at the end of their workout, for example, do something that is either unilateral or they do some like walking lunges or step ups or things like that, they'll be covering off the balance actually through a really good resistance training programme. You can hit most of this.

[Dr Lauren] (44:01 - 44:22)
Yeah, absolutely. And you can also incorporate other time efficient strategies into your resistance training, like supersets or circuits and the meaning you're not sitting there resting for two to three minutes. So there's definitely ways to approach this that aren't overly complicated and don't require you spending hours and hours on end in the gym.

[ANgela Foster] (44:23 - 44:32)
So that's super helpful. Thank you. Let's switch gears to protein.

Do peri and postmenopausal women need more protein than women who are cycling?

[Dr Lauren] (44:32 - 46:01)
I don't think we have the evidence to say that. We know that protein is important and that older adults probably don't eat enough protein on average. And so I think the emphasis around eating more protein is something that we need if you have somebody who is at the RDA of 0.8 grammes per kilogramme. So we see a pretty measurable benefit when we bump that up to 1.3, 1.4 grammes per kilogramme. So just moving the needle from RDA to their measurable benefit, particularly for older individuals. Beyond that, it's really personal preference.

You can go in the 1.6 grammes per kilogramme. I'd say the majority of the literature would point to that range. So saying, let's aim for a minimum of 1.3, and then we can go up from there. Now, going all the way up to a gramme per pound or two grammes per kilogramme, can you? Yes. And there's no harm to doing that.

But is that necessary? No. And I think that some of that messaging is really overwhelming for midlife women who all of a sudden are being told to essentially triple their protein intake.

[ANgela Foster] (46:02 - 46:08)
And is there any minimum threshold that we need to meet in any given meal?

[Dr Lauren] (46:09 - 46:39)
No, we really should be focussing on overall daily protein. Now, logistically, that's going to depend on how many meals you're eating, right? So we probably want to focus on a high-quality protein source with every meal in order to meet that overall target.

But that's not because there's some sort of magic number per meal or throughout the day at a particular frequency. We need to eat in a pattern that is like that in order to actually hit the appropriate target.

[ANgela Foster] (46:40 - 46:55)
Yeah. And if you increase protein and you're in a calorie deficit, that will help to preserve muscle. And also, I know when I was speaking with Bill Campbell recently, he was mentioning research that showed actually just by going a little bit higher on protein, that in itself can help with fat loss.

[Dr Lauren] (46:55 - 47:24)
Well, what we see in fat loss specifically is it can help with satiety. So it can help you feel more full. And so the same thing would go for fibre.

Anything when we're trying to be in a calorie deficit, anything that we can do to help us feel more full, so those kind of high-volume foods, that can be really helpful. And so a high-protein diet can be a good strategy for that reason if you have fat loss goals.

[ANgela Foster] (47:24 - 47:59)
With fat loss goals, we recently polled around 1,500 of my audience of midlife women, and over 40% of them said that they were struggling with belly fat. Even when we look at belly fat, there's kind of two pieces to this. There's visceral fat, which is dangerous in and around the organs.

Then there's adipose tissue, which is on the outside you can sort of grab. In midlife, we see that change in fat deposition from the hip and thigh to the abdominal area. What is the best way for women to lose visceral fat?

[Dr Lauren] (48:00 - 50:20)
Weight loss. The thing that we would try to specifically target is sort of, it would be misleading. We can't control where we're going to lose the fat from first or last.

And often, it's that last place that is the one that we're most concerned about, which is incredibly frustrating. But the way that we store and lose fat varies from person to person, but also isn't something that we have a whole lot of control over. You probably have that friend who always gains weight in her hips and thighs.

Then you have another friend who always gains weight around her midsection. Then maybe when you're somebody who just starts losing weight, you feel like, I lose weight in my face really quickly. It does vary depending on the person.

The thing that we see in the menopause transition, and it's not in everybody, but it's in maybe 60% of women, is this sort of change in that fat pattern storage. It's not necessarily that you are gaining so much fat in that area. It's almost a perception switch because you were used to, when you put on fat, having it come on in a different place.

Now, it feels like a substantial amount of weight gain because you're noticing in that different location. We don't really understand why this happens or why it doesn't happen with everybody. It seems that it must be more complicated than just pointing to the hormonal changes.

If it were the hormonal changes, then we would see it across the board. That said, we know that this fat is responsive to a calorie deficit and is responsive the same way that a calorie deficit is effective for all fat loss. We need to really focus on the time and patience piece of the fat loss because, again, you might be in a position where you are losing body fat, but you're just losing it from other places first before you're actually going to lose it around the midsection.

[ANgela Foster] (50:21 - 51:22)
Then as you say, it's so individual because some women will lose it around their face and they don't want to. Then they feel they're looking gaunt, but they're actually trying to get it off their abdominal area. The other thing I'd say as a perimenopausal woman myself is you just get less of a pass overall with your abdominal area.

I'm way more prone to bloating. I think that's also being researched at the moment is the changes that take place in relation to your gut microbiome, how it can become more inflamed, the lining, things like that. For example, for me, I have to be very intentional about eating away from going to bed or that can cause, which we should do anyway.

It's good practise, but also I just find that can lead to bloating. I think that's the thing as well for women listening to this is sometimes it's weight gain, sometimes it's bloating. You're just noticing a kind of overall increase, which is not great for how women feel in that area.

We just need to pay a bit more attention to all of the things you've been speaking about. When we look at the types of exercise, we need a calorie deficit, as you said, for fat loss to occur. Are there types of exercise that are better for fat loss?

[Dr Lauren] (51:23 - 52:36)
We see fat loss with higher and more moderate intensity exercise, but the fat loss is really disappointing compared to what we would anticipate if we just change exercise alone and we don't focus on the diet. Part of that is because when we start an exercise programme and we don't pay attention to the diet, then we end up, for the most part, subconsciously eating a little bit more throughout the day and moving a little bit less throughout the day, meaning the weight loss that we would anticipate from those calories that we're burning during exercise ends up being far less than we would have predicted. If we want to lose weight more efficiently, then focussing on the diet is a game changer, but we should be exercising during weight loss because we want to maintain as much muscle as we can, so we're losing more fat and not as much muscle.

If we develop those exercise habits, then that's shown to also really help maintain that weight loss.

[ANgela Foster] (52:36 - 53:00)
It's really interesting what you say there because you were touching on this concept of NEAT, non-exercise active thermogenesis. When I check it myself, 100%, I'm one of those fidgety people who's conditioned to move, but if I've done a massive workout, I will naturally move less for the rest of the day because I can see it on my step count. The body just has this, I suppose, for many of us, frustrating way of just adjusting itself and you're like, no, no, don't.

[Dr Lauren] (53:01 - 53:53)
This is so misunderstood because then people will think, oh, well, a calorie deficit doesn't even work for me or, well, if I start eating less, then you're telling me that my metabolism is going to shut down. It's like, no, these are adaptive to the weight loss. As we become a smaller person, then we are going to have a lower metabolic rate.

As we continue to decrease our calories, then those are our new maintenance calories. It is very dynamic, but I think that can be really frustrating for people because they say, well, that calorie deficit was working for me and then it stopped working. It's like, well, it stopped working because we lost weight.

Then we have to make another adjustment.

[ANgela Foster] (53:54 - 54:25)
Yes, frustrating. What about carbohydrates? A lot of women fear carbohydrates.

You mentioned fibre quite a few times. If we're having whole food source of carbohydrates, we'll be getting the fibre, but how can carbohydrates help us in terms of recovery from workouts? How much do we need?

Is there an ideal set of macronutrient percentages in terms of protein, fats, and carbs that work for most people that you found or in the literature? What can you share around carbs?

[Dr Lauren] (54:26 - 55:21)
I think we shouldn't demonise any macronutrients. Over the years, there's been the low-fat diet craze and then the low-carb diet craze. We want some balance here.

We don't want to try to be super restrictive on either end. Typically, if you have your protein goal and then make sure that we are getting in our necessary micronutrients, then we can let the chips fall where they may in terms of higher fat or higher carbohydrate based on personal preference. Unless you're somebody who is doing a lot of high-intensity endurance training and we need the additional carbohydrates for performance, but for the majority of us, we don't really need to make those kinds of performance nutrition adjustments around carbohydrate intake.

[ANgela Foster] (55:21 - 55:28)
Is there any benefit, for example, when you've just done a workout to having some carbs in that next meal? Does that help you recover more quickly?

[Dr Lauren] (55:29 - 56:07)
Probably not. Assuming that you're wanting to have a balanced meal post-workout, then yes, I would include carbohydrates, but most of the types of exercise that we're doing, if we're going and lifting weights in the gym for 45 minutes, we're not actually depleting that much glycogen. We don't necessarily need to replace, but if we were to do a lot of really high-intensity exercise or go for a really, really long run in that kind of context, then I would say, okay, yeah, we should have some carbohydrates post-workout.

[ANgela Foster] (56:07 - 56:19)
What about for the vegans and vegetarians that are listening to this? A lot of the protein that they're going to be consuming is wrapped in fibre. It's absorbed less quickly.

Are there any issues with that, that they need to think about?

[Dr Lauren] (56:20 - 56:45)
No. We have really high-quality sources of vegan protein. Even if you're someone who's interested in a supplement like pea protein powder is really excellent.

Vegans can get a sufficient protein intake. It's just about being more mindful about combining the amino acids so that you're getting an appropriate overall intake throughout the day.

[ANgela Foster] (56:45 - 56:54)
Yeah. It comes back to that daily number. We have covered a tonne here.

Thank you so much. Is there anything that I haven't asked you that you would like women to know?

[Dr Lauren] (56:55 - 58:22)
I think there's a lot of messaging out there that is really targeting women saying everything's changing, especially over the menopause transition or the way you used to exercise don't do that anymore. You need a whole new set of rules. That can be really overwhelming for people.

It's really not rooted in the evidence. I think we need to reframe this message that is instead of terrifying and confusing to be more empowering and say what's pretty cool about exercise is it doesn't matter when in life we start, we can get these incredibly positive adaptations. It's never too late to start.

We don't have to do any one particular type of exercise or another. What's most important is that we do something consistently. If more people were just to do that, then we would be in a much better place in our overall health.

I think that as women, often we are always trying to switch things up and try the next thing or we try one thing for eight weeks and then it doesn't work. Then we're on to the next thing. Instead of learning about the principles that we need to be focused on and the patience required before we can actually see the adaptations that we're seeking.

[ANgela Foster] (58:23 - 58:59)
I think the patience is key. Dr. Lauren Colenso-Sample, thank you so much for sharing all of this with us today. I think it will be liberating and empowering for many women to go back and listen to this again.

We covered a lot. The pressure is off in many respects, but I think the message is to be really intentional about your training and to do it properly, but also just to have fun with it and do what you enjoy at the same time because the consistency is key. I know that you are deep in the science.

You have the mass research review. What's the best way? Please share that people can keep up with you and everything that you're doing.

[Dr Lauren] (58:59 - 59:09)
Yeah, you can follow me on Instagram, DrLaurenCS1, and check out my website, DrLaurenCS.com. You can sign up for my weekly newsletter called Fact Check Friday.

[ANgela Foster] (59:09 - 59:14)
Amazing. Thank you so much. We will link to all of that in the description below.

Thanks again for coming on.

[Dr Lauren] (59:14 - 59:15)
Thank you.

[ANgela Foster] (59:15 - 59:32)
If you're getting value from this show, the single best thing you can do to help us keep bringing you the highest calibre guests is to subscribe or follow wherever you listen or watch. It takes 10 seconds, but it genuinely makes a difference to the quality of the guests we bring you week after week.

You've been tracking your cycle, adjusting your workouts, and following the rules. Yet it still isn't working. Dr. Lauren Colenso-Semple, PhD in integrative physiology, breaks down what the science actually says about cycle syncing for women over 40 and the answer might surprise you. 
Could everything you've been told about training around your cycle be completely wrong?

WHAT YOU’LL LEARN: 
• Does cycle syncing actually improve workout results for women?
• Should you train harder in the follicular phase when estrogen is high?
• Do women in perimenopause need different training rules?
• Can you build muscle at any rep range or do you need to lift heavy?
• Is fasted training bad for women's hormones and adrenal health?
• Does caffeine before a fasted workout raise cortisol to dangerous levels?
• How much protein do perimenopausal women actually need per day?
• Is there a minimum protein threshold per meal for muscle building?
• Why is belly fat harder to lose after 40 and what actually works?
• Do you need zone two training for mitochondrial health in perimenopause?
• Can machine weights build as much muscle as free weights?
• What is the best exercise strategy for bone density in midlife women?