Sarah Kennedy (00:00.034)
We call it the valley of death. Your hunger goes out of control because you've suppressed your appetite so much, you probably haven't gotten to a great eating pattern. You've just eaten a lot less and that's why you see this huge rebound in that first three months when you come off GLP one medication.

Angela Foster (00:17.848)
Things that understanding with GLP ones is that people will regain weight afterwards quite quickly once that drug is removed. What did you find with your follow-up?

Sarah Kennedy (00:26.606)
Treatment group gain no weight in that three months. Whenever you have a synthetic hormone, your own hormones go, wee, I don't need to do anything. I'm going on holiday. When you come off, you need to reboot it. This is why 90% of people will regain weight within 17 months. We all know we go through times of stress, lack of sleep, and what do a lot of us turn to? Something to eat.

Angela Foster (00:51.918)
Why didn't I continue what I was doing? Why wasn't I eating healthily?

Sarah Kennedy (00:54.936)
got no willpower, why did I do it? All of those things. We have a primitive hindbrain in a modern world. And that primitive hindbrain is always saying to us, if our calories are lower, hey you should go out and eat. You're probably going into a famine. Just remember it's not your fault.

Angela Foster (01:13.358)
Are so many women in midlife are struggling with weight gain and changing body composition while they're also trying to protect their muscle. GLP1 medicines can help some people. They also bring side effects. They're not that accessible to everyone. So I'm so excited to have you back to talk about some new exciting research you have that can help us not just improve fat loss results, but also help to preserve muscle. Tell us about the research you've been doing.

Sarah Kennedy (01:43.032)
Thanks, Angela. Well, when we last spoke, I could talk to you about the three human clinicals we'd done before, which showed that we reduced hunger by thirty percent, we reduced craving by forty percent, and we reduced average calorie intake by eighteen percent. And that was done within an hour and lasted for four to six hours. Now everyone loved that, but they're always the question was, well, will I lose weight?

And of course we knew it anecdotally, but we didn't have it clinically. So three years ago I raised three and a half million for this trial. And so the trial was 150 patients, men and women, with a BMI between 25 and 35, and they were on telicurb or placebo, so double blinded and randomized, over six months with treatment, and then a three-month follow-up.

And that was all blinded. However, the results came out in November, or we unblinded them in November last year, and then it was published in July. The results were fantastic, 4.3% of weight, but it was all fat, proportional visceral fat, and no muscle. In fact, they put on a small amount of muscle, which was fantastic.

But it actually made the weight loss not seem as good because you have to do it on an average. But absolutely it was all fat. So nine point nine pounds of fat and two pounds increase in muscle. Extraordinary result and the that was the treatment group.

Angela Foster (03:26.592)
And so this was a low intervention trial, right? Where you were not trying to control lots of different variables of what they were doing so that you could see the effects that the calllocurb was having on their lifestyle. They were given a few recommendations across both groups.

Sarah Kennedy (03:42.434)
They were randomized and blinded. So you don't know who's in a treatment group and you don't know who's in a pleasinum. And of course we don't see it at all because it's done independently from us. You can imagine you put all this money in and then you cross your fingers and you wait for three years. So what they were given it was called a real world trial. They were seen once a month and they had a dietitian who literally said, Hey, eat more protein.

and try and do some exercise and you know mainly walking and so on. And that was done both to the treatment group and the placebo group. So you can't differentiate them. No one knows who the difference is. So yes, absolutely this was statistically significant. And for a supplement or a bioceutical, these are extraordinary results.

Angela Foster (04:35.752)
They really are. I think that's why I'm so excited to talk to you about it because when we look at what's happening in midlife, right, we know that there is a propensity to gain more abdominal fat, including visceral fat, which is the fat in and around our organs. So we see that redistribution of body fat. Many women also find that they're gaining a bit more weight. Cravings are super common as well. And then there is this natural aging process, in addition to some of the hormonal changes that make it.

A bit harder to gain lean tissue. This is really important because when we're looking at muscle, that's one of the things with GLP1s that is so common that people lose muscle because their appetite is being so heavily regulated, right? That it actually feels very difficult to go and eat protein. Often they're not getting enough calories in necessarily to maintain an active lifestyle. How is colocarb different when you're taking it in terms of the way?

it makes you feel and the effects it has on things like appetite and eating.

Sarah Kennedy (05:37.506)
Done a huge amount of reading on the muscle loss or the lean body mass that people lose. And they will lose between 25 and 40 percent, and that weight loss will be muscle. So on a GLP1 medication, over a third on that lean muscle mass. Now they think it's because of the rapid weight loss, but they're not quite sure why it is so rapid. Now

Angela Foster (05:50.709)
This is on GLP once.

Sarah Kennedy (06:06.86)
I'll give you a comparison. So two weeks before we published in the same journal, and we could never do a direct comparison, but one was published, and that was a real life intervention with 24 weeks on either semi-glutide, which is Wagovy, or trisepatide is bound. So it's the first time we had a comparison of the 24 weeks. They lost 18 pounds, but five pounds of that.

or 27% were lean muscle mass. So they actually lost overall 13 pounds. And as we talked about, we lost 9.9 pounds. So it's kind of like go figure. Do you want to lose all of that muscle as well? You are going to lose more weight, but a lot of it is going to be well in this case, over six months, 27% of that was muscle.

And the problem is when you lose muscle, it's quite hard to gain it again. We naturally lose about three percent a year of muscle as we get older, you know, if we don't do a lot of strength training and so on. So when you're losing twenty-seven percent, it's a lot of muscle. And it is more than when you just lose weight. You know, I come back to this clinical that Calicurb did.

They lost all fat and no muscle. And as we said, not only that, they put on a small amount of muscle. So, and now why is that? We stimulate the release of three appetite suppressing hormones. The four first one is CCK. CCK is a very potent appetite suppressing hormone which is in the top of your upper digestive tract.

But it's also known to release and metabolize fat. So then you've got the CCK and it's known to metabolize abdominal fat. Then you have GLP1, which we know is your appetite suppressing, everyone knows that. But lastly, we talked about the third hormone we release, which is PYY. Now, PYY is also known to stimulate muscle satellite cells. So

Sarah Kennedy (08:30.974)
Is it because we're not promoting rapid, rapid weight loss? And is it because of this combination of the three hormones we have? So if we look at a Wacovi, it has one synthetic hormone, which is GLP1. If we look at trisepatide, it has two, which is GLP1 and GIP. We have three, which is CCK, known to metabolized fat.

It also squeezes a gallbladder, so no side effects of gallstones, GLP one and then P one.

Angela Foster (09:08.824)
Why? I think the thing that's so important around muscle is not just that it gives us obviously more shape, right? That's lovely to look at in the mirror, but actually from our health perspective, right, it's such an important reservoir for glucose disposal and improving insulin sensitivity. And also, muscle helps us spurn more fat. So if you lose more weight, but you're also losing muscle at the same time.

At some point, people want to come off or reduce these medications, and then it creates a harder time, right? In terms of maintaining that body composition. I know this is something you also looked at when you did your trial. So it was six months, and then you followed up with these people for three months. Because one of the things that my understanding with GLP1s is that people will regain weight afterwards quite quickly once that drug is removed. What did you find with your follow-up?

Sarah Kennedy (10:03.64)
So this has been written up now, incredibly exciting. In that three months. So remember they came off everything. Treatment and placebo, the treatment group gained no weight in that three months. Now we know when you come off a synthetic GLP one or a synthetic drug, you get rapid rate regain, and it's usually in that first three months. Now part of that reason is you have suppressed

Your own natural hormones, because we all have GLP one. Remember that's all what Calicurb is doing, is stimulating your own natural hormones at twice the level they normally are. But when you have a synthetic hormone, you've suppressed them almost to zero. Now that is quite natural. Whenever you have a synthetic hormone, your own hormones go, Wee, I don't need to do anything. I'm going on holiday.

They don't need to produce because you've already got it in your body and they know you've got it in your body. So when you've had a synthetic GLP one, your natural GLP one goes to almost zero. So when you come off, you need to reboot it. It's almost like you need to reboot that gut brain access again to start helping you to go, I know I'm full. So there's a really complex.

things happening in your body. But just understand, and this is why we know 90% of people will regain weight within 17 months. And that's heartbreaking. You know, you've gone through a lot of work and money, you know, so how do you do it so you maintain it? And the thing about maintaining it is about having that healthy gut brain access. It's about having that bit of help when you need it.

To make better choices. Now we all know we go through times of stress, lack of sleep. We just talked about that before. All of those things, hormonal changes, where you go, I'm just, I'm stressed. I just can't cope today. And what do a lot of us turn to? We'll turn to something to eat. So that will power. So Calicurb is a wonderful, you can come in and out of it as well in your maintenance when you know.

Sarah Kennedy (12:31.5)
you're going to struggle the most.

Angela Foster (12:33.688)
So for example, when we're looking at, as you mentioned there, you have a really stressful day or maybe a stressful few weeks at work. You're juggling lots of things. It feels like the demands of your family are kind of moving up at the same time, right? Life so often delivers multiple challenges all at once. And in those situations,

We can feel driven to crave more sweet things. Sometimes it will be salty things for people, particularly, most particularly in the evening when our willpower is at its lowest. But actually, it sounds from what you're saying here is because it is a supplement as opposed to an injection which is long lasting, you could use it in that situation when you know that your defenses are going to be low to reduce your appetite. And then you don't have the whole beating yourself up afterwards of like

Why didn't I continue what I was doing? Why wasn't I eating healthily? Which leads to its own kind of destructive cycle in itself. Could you use it in that way, Sarah?

Sarah Kennedy (13:31.224)
got no willpower, why did I do it? You know, all of those things. Hey, I've been through that whole world. I think I said last time, I intermittent fast. So I just take mine in the morning and I can get right through to lunchtime, one o'clock, and I'm fine. I can walk past the muffins, I can walk past all of those things at morning tea. I don't have that incredible hunger. But then if I'm I've always said if I'm going to eat late at night,

So I'm not going to have dinner at half past six or something like that. I'm going to be eating dinner at eight o'clock. I will always have some calicurb at about six o'clock because I don't want to get there and dive into the bread basket. So and you will. Your brain's telling you to eat because you're hungry. Your reserves have gone down. You're hungry. Your brain is. You're tired. So I always think it's this wonderful tool.

you know, for maintenance as well. And you know those stressful times. And they will you know, we're all coming up to Christmas. You think of all the Christmas parties you go to, you think of all of those things. You still want to enjoy them yourself. There's nothing wrong with that. But just it just will help you moderate. You'll just feel full faster and you're doing it naturally. And because you're not injecting yourself and it lasts for seven days.

Remember this lasts for four to six hours. You can come in and out of it.

Angela Foster (15:02.03)
I think that's the the really amazing thing, isn't it, is that it doesn't have to be for a long time. And I think there's so much research that shows us it isn't about discipline because we can only exert that for so long. So much of this, our behavior is determined by our environment. So we think, okay, well, how can we set ourselves up for success? But as you rightly say, there are times in our lives when whether it's through stress, whether it's through Thanksgiving, whether it's through Christmas, holiday celebrations where we don't control our environment, right?

And so this can be helpful.

Sarah Kennedy (15:33.134)
Totally. So, you know, it's very good. I've I've just shown with the fourth human clinical is very, very effective in losing weight. We've never just been about weight. We've always been about modernizing human consumption because we have a primitive hindbrain in a modern world. And that primitive hindbrain is always saying to us, if our calories are lower, hey, you should go out and eat.

you're probably going into a famine. And of course, in a modern environment, we're surrounded by food. So it's just dialing back that food noise. It's dialing back those so you can make healthier choices. You can walk past that bakery, you know, you can make those healthier choices. Or you may choose to eat that, but you're going to eat half of it, not the whole. We've just hacked into

your evolutionary system to help you adapt to the modern world. So what we've done is we've hacked into a way to help you re-stimulate that gut brain access, but to stimulate your own natural hormones to tell you you're full. And what I love is the fact that what we've seen in that three months was we haven't suppressed those at all. We've upregulated them. So that treatment group

did not put on way or had no rebound.

Angela Foster (17:05.068)
Yeah, to draw a parallel, when we look at women going through the perimenopausal transition, right? Some doctors who haven't had as much of that exposure to the training in things like body identical and biodentical hormones still will prescribe things like birth control, right? Which is a synthetic set of hormones that plunge our own hormones down to zero. Whereas body and biodential hormones work alongside our natural hormones.

Calocurb is doing the same thing, right? A GLP1 injection is plunging your natural levels, it's taking over, it's giving you a big dose, so it reduces that appetite. Whereas CaloCurb is working alongside your natural GLP1s, which brings me on to my next question. You were mentioning earlier around how it can help improve your own production of GLP1 by up to twofold.

How does that differ in someone who's using this as a kind of ad hoc basis, like you were just describing, where it's like, actually I'm going into Thanksgiving, coming up, I want to reduce how much I'm going to eat, so I'm going to take it for a few days, versus someone who's taking it on a longer term, like a six month fat loss program, for example. Are there differences in how we should approach it to improve that?

Sarah Kennedy (18:18.762)
No, not at all, because it's not cumulative. It's not you don't have to take it for a you know, a month to feel an effect. It works in an hour. And we're hoping with some of the new research that you're almost exercising these little these little receptor cells that sit in the lining of your gastrointestinal tract. So the more you stimulate them to release their hormones, the more effective they become. And, you know, the hypothesis is that

You know, as we age, we have less L cells, we have less receptors, you know, we're not always stimulating them. So we're just helping to say to reboot them. But absolutely if you're coming in and out of it, it's it is going to stimulate those receptors within an hour and it will be double what they'd normally be. So six hundred percent versus three hundred percent.

Angela Foster (19:13.932)
And so in the study that you did, the participants were taking it twice daily. Was that around an hour or so before they ate?

Sarah Kennedy (19:21.368)
Yes, so the key thing is they took it an hour before lunch and an hour before dinner. And the reason for that, that's your two main meals of the day. You know, people say, how do I remember? You know, d the it can be an hour and a half. It doesn't have to be an hour. The key is you need to take it on an empty stomach or an empty stomach.

You know, the only thing about having it on a full stomach, of course, is it's it's released in your upper gut. So you want it to go past your stomach. So you don't want it hanging round a whole lot of food in your stomach. Take it with a glass of water.

Angela Foster (19:59.374)
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It wasn't. My report showed I have a higher need for nutrients like vitamin B12 and choline and a reduced capacity to produce glutathione, one of the body's most important antioxidants. So I've made a few simple changes. I'm paying much closer attention to my B12 status, making sure I'm getting enough choline through foods like eggs, and supporting my body's natural antioxidant systems. They're simple changes, but they're personalized to my DNA, and that's why I've partnered with Strive.

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Sarah Kennedy (21:16.258)
When they first go on it, up to ten percent of people can have a laxative effect, so a loose stall. So we always have five days of titrating up, which is one a day for two days, two a day for two days, and then two capsules, so up to four a day. It's always in a month's supply, so you know that titration is in there. And once you kind of know, you know, what your dosage is, about five percent of people

may stay on the one capsule, which is why we titrate up. They just probably have a higher density of these receptors. So we're always saying, you know, understand your body, but 90% of people will be absolutely fine on the two. We only had one person in the whole of the clinical, so that was 150 people that was too sensitive and they withdrew. The rest we just titrated up slower.

Or they stayed on the lower dose. That was about, I think it was about five or six people. So and it's all in the instructions. Exciting though, Angela, since we last talked, we launched in the UK. So we are available in the UK. We're available online if you go to the natural dispensary. It will have the online clinic. Or you can buy it through Newman.

Angela Foster (22:42.712)
So if you're in the UK, go to Newman or the natural dispensary to try it. For somebody who's thinking, actually, I'm looking ahead for next year and after Christmas is out the way, I really want to focus on my health and I want to gain some muscle and lose some body fat, what is the standard amount of time that you advise people to take it to sort of sit alongside the healthy lifestyle things that they're doing in terms of their fitness, their nutrition, their sleep and stress management?

Sarah Kennedy (23:08.942)
We saw a very rapid weight loss in that first three months. So and that was very low intervention, as I said to you. So i I would easily say three months.

Angela Foster (23:20.856)
You mentioned about titrating on it as you're coming onto it. Do you advise that people titrate off?

Sarah Kennedy (23:26.86)
No. No. The only reason to titrate horn is to know what your body's dosage is. Remember, this is a biologically active product. So it will make a difference. So if you're a super sensitive person, which we know five percent of people are, we can't tell. We look at someone like you who's lovely and petite. And you must you might have the most robust gut in the whole world. We just wouldn't know. You all have

Physiologically different densities of these receptors. So that that five days basically is just allowing you to test how sensitive your body is, just about everyone, that lex laxative effect will pass in 48, 48 hours, two to three days.

Angela Foster (24:16.024)
Have you seen any correlation between people who suffer with cravings more? Do you notice that people who maybe feel they have a more of a propensity to gain weight easily or they struggle more with cravings, that maybe those people end up needing to take the two capsules because they need that sort of stronger stimulus for upregulation?

Sarah Kennedy (24:35.916)
I'd love to be able to give you a correlation like that, but no, there's so many genetic things going on. What we can tell you though is in the clinical we did in Women, which was the twenty-four hour water only fast, in the last eight hours we were able to reduce craving, the increase in craving by a hundred and twenty per cent. that was massive, so we gave Calico but sixteen hours and twenty hours.

into a 24 hour water only fast and their craving reduced 120%. So what that meant is they were craving less at 24 hours than they were at 16 hours. So you know that's how directed is on craving. I'm talking about craving, not hunger. And there is a difference between hunger and craving.

And you can differentiate craving with savory and sweet. And hunger is, I want to eat. So we decreased hunger by 100%, but we decreased craving by 120%. We also saw that in the six month trial, we statistically reduced appetite right the way through the six months and craving right the way through the six months.

Interesting, we got no difference in fullness, which was really good because what that sent was none of them felt that real bloating or stasis of the stomach, which is quite common with injectables, where you just feel full the whole time. So what we are doing is reducing the appetite and reducing the craving, but we're not giving you that. I just feel, you know.

bloated or full the whole time. I know they're all subtle differences.

Angela Foster (26:32.726)
Really important is one of the top symptoms that women will report to me is this. I guess if you think of it as a an overall thickening of their midsection, right? And then it's like, what is it? And one of the first things I look at with my clients is: what are we seeing there? Is it bloating? Is it distension? Is it coming from the diaphragm? Is it coming from breathing mechanics?

Is it that you've actually got some fat outside of the abdominal wall, so adipose tissue, which is not so threatening, right? Or is it that metabolically active fat that's sitting behind the abdominal wall, that's visceral fat? There's so many things that are coming into play when you look at that abdominal area. And so actually, that is such a delight if it doesn't cause more distension and bloating, because in my experience, that's that's the thing that women just they hate, right? And they just see it. They wake up in the morning, sometimes it's a little bit flatter, often with bloating it is.

And then as the day goes on, it builds up and they're not quite sure what is causing that. You're not seeing that with Carlo Curve.

Sarah Kennedy (27:28.388)
it's interesting you're saying that because the scientists were really excited. This statistical decrease in appetite, the statistical decrease in craving. There's no increase in this feeling of fullness, which is, you know, that I just feel bloated. And they're like, this is great, this is great. And I'm going, okay, okay. So I mean it's interesting you were talking to me about it because I don't probably I hadn't really got the significance of it.

Angela Foster (27:56.438)
I see so often and it really ramps up for many women around midlife and it's really upsetting because it can feel so out of control because you're like, what is this? And then you've got hormone changes that are happening, and certain days we all know that when, you know, with a menstrual cycle, we see differences across the menstrual cycle. But in perimenopause, when things are all over the place and women feel like, gosh, I feel like I just can't control it. Why is it that some days I feel like I look

you know, fine, I feel fine. And then it gets compounded because what happens is you become psychologically so much more in tune with it. It leads to body touching, right? And then looking in the mirror and analyzing. And actually there's been some interesting kind of research around this, where the more that you do that, the more sensitive your brain is becoming. And some people are naturally more sensitive to these receptors around bloating. And so it just becomes such a compounding issue, I think, for so many women.

Sarah Kennedy (28:51.79)
So well, I'll go back and have a look at that. I I suppose I was just always so excited about the fat and no muscle and the proportional to the abdominal fat. Definitely it's all written up in the paper. And so none of that, no changes in the fullness. And that's between placebo and treatment. When you're talking about preparing menopause, is in menopause we do start to gather fat around that abdominal area and around the hips and all the rest.

And of course this is what Calicurb is addressing as well.

Angela Foster (29:23.81)
You mentioned when we were talking about upregulation of bitter taste receptors. What's happening there?

Sarah Kennedy (29:30.786)
We know it's in vitro, so in vitro being in the test these little receptors, you're kind of stimulating them to kind of look at them like you're exercising them. You know, and we do know that once you stimulate them, they then fill up quicker and they become upregulated. So we're improving that gut brain access. And I often think about it like we do know that children or adolescents.

are more sensitive because probably, you know, the L cells through the gastrointestinal tract haven't been subjected to all the things we, you know, age, change, really hot liquids, alcohol, everything else that we have. And I often look at young children and and I think, you know, maybe mothers say I'm wrong, but you know, they say I'm not hungry. And we try and feed them.

But I often think it's that, you know, that they've got a very well adjusted gut brain access and they're actually saying, I'm not hungry. I know it drives mothers mad because then they'll come back in five minutes and say, I want something else. We release these hormones to go to our brain to tell us to stop eating. If we didn't have that feedback mechanism, we would pop

basically. I mean we'd have nothing to tell us to stop eating. And you know, and this is where you get this dysregulation. And there's many, many other factors, but part of it is this dysregulation between gut and brain, saying, Hey, you've had enough. So anytime you can reconnect that or upregulate it, you know, that's that's really helpful.

Angela Foster (31:21.632)
I think back to when mine were young, children have this very natural way of regulating their body weight. And just going off to play and then coming and eating, they don't really struggle. I mean, they've got really good levels of digestive enzymes as well, which really helps. And I think the thing is now what we have is so many super hyper palatable foods that especially at this time of year we've got coming up can be very difficult to resist.

Are there any groups of people that you would say should stay away from it or con obviously you always want to consult with your practitioner if you're taking anything? Are there any contraindications?

Sarah Kennedy (31:53.592)
Yeah, absolutely. If you've got RBD or Crohn's, because we focus on the gastrointestinal tract. I mean, less than well, one percent is absorbed in the bloodstream. So it is absolutely focused on activating those receptors. So if you've got an inflamed gastrointestinal tract, why would you do something like that? So we always say don't with that.

Angela Foster (32:19.822)
Some people can consult their medical practitioner if they're doing that. I am gonna link to the previous episode we did because we dived into this in quite a bit of detail. But I think it's just helpful for people to understand what it is just very briefly. It's a natural ingredient, right? It's a bit of hops extract.

Sarah Kennedy (32:35.372)
Yeah, it comes from a sp specific hop that we grow in New Zealand, we extract it and we actually manufacture in the US because we're we're a patented formulation, but the capsule we're in is patented as well. So hops we when we say hop extract, we take the hop and we extract it by supercritical extraction. So we're only left with the alpha and beta acids and a small amount of essential oils.

So there's no phytoestrogens, nothing else. So people say, well, will it affect this? Will it affect that? No. It's the alpha and beta acids. And that tiny amount of essential oils is hilarious because males don't mind it, because if they get a small burp, it's like a beer burp. And I must get asked all the time by males, this is great. I can drink beer and get slimmed. No, you can't.

Absolutely. I wish you could, but no, you can't. If we did, we'd all be lying around drunk all day. Even I'd drink beer if that was the way. But these are what we call unisomerized hops, not isomerized hops. There is a difference. So specific variety of hops, we extract it, we take all the biological material out. So no phytoestrogens, no biological material. And then this is formulated with a small amount.

of vegetable oil, which just helps it dissipate in the upper gut, and a tiny amount of rosemary, which is used as a preservative. So literally it's in a vegetarian cap. It is a vegetarian formulation and you've got three ingredients.

Angela Foster (34:19.383)
So very natural. I mean, there's so many people right across the world that are trying to improve their life, improve their health and really take ownership of it. And this is a way of doing it. Because you control the dose, you control when you take it, how much you need, when you need it, right, which isn't necessarily every day. What's coming up next for you? Are there any more studies and things that you're doing?

Sarah Kennedy (34:38.208)
And it works in an hour. I think that's important for people. Yes, absolutely. We are science led. So we're just going into our fifth human clinical in January. We are looking at that maintenance, that whole maintenance space, because there is nothing there at the moment to help people in maintenance. And that's what we'll be absolutely focusing on. The trial has been written up. It's another expensive trial with a lot of participants, but we're really excited about it.

I wish I could magically wave my wand and give the result and this will take over a year just to get that.

Angela Foster (35:15.054)
When someone's taking a GLP one, can they work with their practitioner to use this alongside? So as they're going down on the dose, can they start with callocurbs so that they never have that gap, right, where they feel they've got all this return of the food noise?

Sarah Kennedy (35:29.846)
The usages are as an alternative, like you know, I can't take the side effects, I can't afford it, I don't want a pharmaceutical, so we know it's effective. The second one is used in conjunction because you can lower the dosage. You can actually make yourself be on the lowest dosage, yeah. You could call it microdosing, lower doses, so it lowers the cost, lowers the side effects.

And you're keeping stimulating and natural, so use them alongside. And the third one, which I always say is not an if, it's a must when you come off. And start using Calicurb at least three weeks before on that month that you're titrating down, start to use Calicurb then. It will take that food noise away for you. So that is going to be so important that you have that safety net.

And we're starting to re-stimulate that natural appetite suppressing. So you're not going to fall back into bad habits. We call it the valley of death. You come off, you come off the synthetics, your hunger goes out of control, probably because you've suppressed your appetite so much, you probably haven't got into a great eating pattern. You've just eaten a lot less. So we call it the valley of death.

And that's why you see, you know, this huge rebound in that first three months. So how can we help people through the valley of death?

Angela Foster (37:06.114)
And presuming there are articles and things on your website that people can use and take to their practitioner and the instructions to go through with them, how do I actually make this transition really effectively so I can help that weight loss hold?

Sarah Kennedy (37:17.942)
All of those protocols are there. We published in July. Now we're in ethics again for the sign-off of the next human clinical and we just keep rolling. We've made a lower dose for adolescents, so we're just starting to trial that in clinic now. Once again, in the theory that they have a really good gut brain access, so we're just helping them along the way.

between that sort of thirteen to eighteen year old. So we're doing some inclinic work with that at the moment. So we've just manufactured a lower dose. That's probably about six to eight months away.

Angela Foster (37:54.924)
I love that you're reinvesting so much of this right back into the science of it all. Thank you so much, Sarah. It's been really, really interesting to hear about this research. I will link to everything in the description so people can go and find out more and also see the studies and everything that you publish and the protocols and discuss as needed with their practitioner. Is there anything we haven't covered that you wanted to mention?

Sarah Kennedy (38:18.206)
No, I just want, you know, to once again reassure people, you know, get away from it's willpower and you fail. You know, I'm so delighted. Whether it's Calicurb or a synthetic drug, we've moved past that. You know, it was just willpower, eat less and exercise more. What I'm so excited about is now we're starting to understand the biological mechanisms of weight management.

And also the nuances with it, with perimenopause, with menopause, with hormones. So just remember it's not your fault.

Angela Foster (38:59.404)
Yeah, exactly. I think that's such a powerful message to send to people because particularly is when we beat ourselves up so readily for things. And I think, you know, so often we're doing all the right things, we're working out, we're trying our best to eat well, but we do have this invisible load and so many demands on ourselves that if we can, you know, have something that can sit alongside to help us to get those results, that is really powerful and that we can, you know, take as needed. And I always say go discuss with your

practitioner first, you know, it's always really, really important. And and nothing we're talking about here is medical advice.

Sarah Kennedy (39:30.774)
And you know, it's about that whole holistic way we look at it. And, you know, that we're doing things, we're exercising, we're looking after our diet and everything, and there's a huge things that go on. So just take a tool, use a tool that will help you and help you make better choices. I had that absolute love-hate relationship with food, which is why I founded this company. Because

You know, you have to be purely insane to found a company. And so but you have to do it because you've got an incredible passion. And mine was this love-hate relationship with food that I'd held since twelve years of age. And I can honestly say to you, now seven years on, I'm completely at peace with food. I no longer have a love-hate. I can eat it, but I'm not obsessed by it and I can enjoy it.

But I don't have to eat too much. So I'm not in that yo yo binging or hating myself for binging as well.

Angela Foster (40:36.502)
I mean, I I know women who, you know, they try and look back, where did this come from? And, you know, often it's like any kind of emotion was rewarded with food in childhood. And that's such a difficult thing to later try to overcome because that patterning has been instituted at such a young age, right? It's just like reflexive. And so as you say, all the discipline in the world doesn't necessarily help to override it. And that's not to take away from any of the psychological counselling and any of the therapy that, you know, sits alongside that, but just to have

That noise, just the volume turned down in order to help you do the work is just such an amazing thing. Thank you so much for coming back and sharing. I'd be excited to to speak to you again when you have even more research. It sounds like you're always doing great, great things. Thanks again, Sarah. It's been really lovely to have you back.

Sarah Kennedy (41:23.714)
Thank you, Angel. Lovely to be with you.

Angela Foster (41:26.07)
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Sarah Kennedy and I talk about fat loss, muscle, GLP-1 medications and food noise in midlife, and how to lose fat without losing muscle and keep the weight off.

When Sarah was last on the show, we talked about whether there's a natural alternative to Ozempic. Since then, Calocurb has published its fourth clinical trial, and the headline is all about muscle.

Watch that episode here: https://youtu.be/U91gbqrENe8

Calocurb founder Sarah Kennedy shares the results of the six-month randomized, placebo-controlled trial: participants lost 4.3% of their weight, all of it fat, including visceral fat, with a small gain in muscle. She explains why 25 to 40% of the weight lost on GLP-1 medications can be muscle, why a synthetic GLP-1 drops your own natural GLP-1 almost to zero, and why around 90% of people regain weight within 17 months of stopping. We also cover cravings versus hunger, why it isn't about discipline, how I tell bloating apart from visceral fat when women tell me their midsection is thickening, and what Sarah calls the valley of death when you come off a GLP-1.

WHAT YOU'LL LEARN

- Why weight lost on GLP-1s can be 25 to 40% muscle

- What a 6-month trial found about losing fat without losing muscle

- Why 90% of people regain the weight within 17 months of stopping GLP-1s

- What to plan with your doctor before coming off a GLP-1